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tion would not be in any danger. He had heard much faid against the violence of the French, and the defperation of their caufe, as manifefted by their debates in the convention; and much reliance was placed on the pamphlet of Briffot, to prove that the French are determined on the deftruction of all other governments: he owned he did not agree to fuch a conclufion. We had in our houfes of parliament faid as hard things of them and their government, as they could fay of us; all this was nothing but haftiness, and would foon be fet afide by opening a train of negociation, which had been too long neglected; indeed, fuch fteps had been taken as had tended much to inflame the whole of the French people. One of these was the manifefto of the duke of Brunfwick, a performance which had been the caufe of much shedding of blood. It was but juft that the public of this country fhould know whether our cabinet knew any thing of that publication. If it did, he was forry they did not proteft against it. If they did not, it was infolent in the court of Vienna to conceal it from us, at a noment when it muit have been in their contemplation to bring us into the league; and while we remained filent on that fubject, the people of France would confider the fentiments contained in this manifetto as the fentiments of the king of Great Britain. The fame obfervation was applicable to all the other manifeftoes and declarations of the allied powers. He concluded with obferving, that with regard to himfelf minifters ought to fee by looking at his conduct for years, that he was actuated by no motive of perfonal hottility to them. But on this occafion he felt himfelf bound to act the part he did. He acted from the fenfe he had of his duty to his king--to his country--and to himself; and viewing all thefe as he did, he found himself bound molt folemnly to declare it to be his opinion, that from our continuing the prefent fyftem, the throne itfelf may be in danger-the country may be ruined; and he thould feel it a matter of internal reproach from his confcience, fuch as would for every deftroy the tranquillity of his mind, thould he conceal from their lordships what he now felt with regard to the prefent momentous con

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had not told their lordships how it was poffible for this country to obtain any peace that could be honourable or lafting. He had heard it asked, what was the object of the war? To which he aniwered, the object of the war was explained by the decree of the national convention of the 16th of November 1792, which if we suffered to pats by in filence, we must allow the French to legiflate for us, and we muit give up our conltitution. The object of the war was-to defend this country and its government against the confulion, anarchy, and violence of the convention, and against the infamous fyftem of the prefent rulers of France-to obtain reparation for the paft, and fecurity for the future. He maintained that there was no inconfiftency in the conduct of the allies, who were now contending against France, under all the circumstances with which the war had been attended; and particularly he maintained that the conduct of lord Hood at Toulon, was perfectly regular and proper. He here read part of the declaration of lord Hood to the inhabitants of Toulon, and the fubfequent proceedings. From these he drew conclufions totally different from thote of the noble marquis who made the motion; for fo far was lord Hood from infifting on any form of government in France, that he left the inhabitants to judge for themfelves; they were to declare in favour of monarchy in France, and lord Hood undertook to protect them, and preferve that place, as well as others that might follow their example, in trust for Louis the XVII, fon of Louis the XVI, he only promifed to fecure to them, as far as circunftances would admit, the form which they adopted for themselves. A noble lord (Stanhope) had on a former day alleged that France had, by her conftitution, given up ali idea of interfering in any government but her own. ftitution it was called, but it refembled more a collection of maxims than a conftitution, and fuch as it was, it had no force, for it was trangled in its birth; and even if we were to conclude a peace with the French under that authority tomorrow, there was no fecurity for the continuance of it for a moment, for the ardour and enthufiaim of the Rights of Man would put an end to all tranquillity, and endanger all the conititutions in Europe, as they had been endangered, for the French might again take it into their heads to plant the tree of liberty in their neighbour's foil: in fhort there was no fecurity whatever to be had of the French

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for the punctual obfervance of any of their engagements. They had no idea of the nature of national honour, national faith, or the binding force of a national engagement, and therefore he would not enter into any agreement with them. To illuftrate what he had now faid, he would refer to the common courfe of proceeding in courts of justice: when any witness was called to be examined, and when his integrity or capacity were doubted, he was ufually afked, What idea have you of the obligation of an oath ? If the answer was infufficient, the court would refuse to examine him; precifely fo was the cafe here -the French had no idea of an agreement between one country and another, and no reliance could be placed on their promife, fuppofing their judgment to be correct upon that fubject. Indeed all the ties of moral obligation were loofened. There was no religion, no morality, no honour, no virtue in France; there was nothing in France to be depended upon in which civil fociety was interested. The Deity by name they had degraded; denied his existence; then tolerated him; then admitted him a member of the jacobin club. All that infamy, blafphemy, and folly, was the effect of despair. What connestion could be held with fuch perfons? Their fyftem was to fet Europe in a flame, as had been expreffed by Briffot; and al. though he fell, his opponents differed from him in this point, only in point of time they agreed to the principle of fetting Europe in a flame, as matter of neceffity for the prefervation of the French republic. Befides, we were lately told from the jacobin club, and from the national convention by Barrere that England wished for peace: that England fhall have peace, but it must be by facrificing her conftitution. Let the noble marquis negociate upon these terins, and he would afk him if he was willing to pay the price which was afked-the facrifice of the conftitution? It was a price which he was fure no man in this country would confent to pay.

The marquis of Lanfdown read the declaration of lord Hood at Toulon, and maintained it fully warranted the comments he put upon it.

The earl of Darnley repeated nearly the fame arguments against the motion as lord Carnarvon had done.

The earl of Guilford obferved, that a noble lord had quoted fpeeches, made in the convention and in the jacobin club of Paris, which he held to be obstacles to

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peace, because they were filled with abuse of this country, and with declarations of enmity to it. Such expreffions on one fide would he retracted, on any fhew of a difpofition for peace in the other; and it was our part, by removing the obitacles which were under our own controul, to contribute what was exprefsly within our power, toward the sparing of human blood. Another difficulty in the way of peace was stated to confift in the treaties upon the table. He would not then enter into the question, how far any treaties could make it improper in that houfe to difcufs topics in which the general interest was concerned, and to carry to the throne the respectful expreffion of their opinion upon them. If the motion would lead the country into any breach of treaties, he fhould be the laft to fupport it; but it was certain, that no departure from them was implicated in it.

It was next afked-with whom could we treat in France? and the question was always intended to fhew, that no treaty with France could be fecure, on account of the ambition and treachery of the per fons who hold the government there. But had the ancient government of that coun try no ambition-no treachery? and were our treaties with that government always held to be fecure? Louis XIV had fhewn by his wars and intrigues, an insatiable ambition; yet the peace of Ryfwick was advised by the minifters of England. A peace with any fort of government in France, the noble lord believed, would be as fecure as any treaty that had been con cluded with Louis XIV. To fuppofe, indeed, that the ancient government of that country was favourable to the tranquillity of Europe, was to revoke the declarations of our ancestors, and to contradict the experience of ages. One of the last manifeftoes of the laft war declared, that the ambition of the French monarchy had not ceafed to disturb the peace of Europe.

The argument, that the war was neceffary to the prefervation of our constitution, his lordship oppofed, by contrasting the happy fituation of the peafantry of this country with the wretchedness and op. preffion of thofe of France under the old government, and by fhewing, that the former were not likely to be mifled into a difrefpect of the conftitution, which had fo long protected them, by the establishment of any form of government in France. The fureft mode of giving additional fecurity to our conftitution, was by lightening the burdens of the people;

a mode,

▲ mode, which had happily commenced, and was once in fome forwardness, but which was now interrupted by the war.

The duke of Leeds faid, that he thought the war necessary to the prefervation of all that was dear to us at home, as well as to our honour abroad. The conduct of this country toward France, fubfequently to the revolution, had been fo far from wear ing a complexion of hostility, that he had himfelf communicated to the powers there, by means of his majefty's ambalfador at Paris, the particulars of a very dangerous confederacy, which he knew to be meditated against them. This was in one of the first periods of the revolution, and ought to have been a fufficient teftimony to France of the fentiments of this country toward her.

Lord Sidney said, that to agree with the motion would amount to nothing lefs than a declaration to the throne, that we diftrufted our arms, our refources, and the faith of our allies. His lordship noticed the conduct of the French convention toward Geneva, which, he faid, was rendered little less than an epitome of France.

Lord Kinnoul likewise spoke against the motion.

The earl of Lauderdale began by ob. ferving, that it had almott become impoffible to deliver opinions in favour of peace, without being reproached with ja. cobinifm, or to mention the liberty which fhould be the pride of Englishmen, without being suspected of favouring the anarchy which prevailed in France. To fuch a height had the arts of mifreprefentation arrived in this country. Yet the perfons who propofed the means of peace, were thofe who offered additional ftrength to the constitution, and who, fo far from endeavouring to excite difcontents, were taking the fureft method to prevent them. His lordship then congratulated the noble duke who feconded the motion, upon his having left the retirement in which he had obferved for fome time the courfe of public affairs, to add his influence upon the prefent occafion, to a most necessary and falutary propofal. While his experience gave weight to his opinions, the purity of his motives, who had long abandoned the pride of public ftation, and who now could have no intereft which every honeft man in the country might not fhare, rendered him an object of public confidence.

Some wonder had been expressed, that, as po material change had taken place in

affairs fince the fubject had been laft agitated in that houfe, it fhould fo foon be renewed. Though the prefent difcuffion differed confiderably from that which had taken place upon the addrefs, he would not appeal to that difference for its juftifi cation, but would thank his noble friend for an opportunity even of repeating arguments formerly used; for the repetition must be attended with good effects upon the minds of men, who all fincerely defired peace, as he believed their lordships did, although fome might differ as to the mode of rendering it honourable and fecure. During the American war, a very small minority had perfevered, till reafon had, at length, prevailed, and faved the country. Upon the fubject of the public avowal made by minifters, relative to the origin and continuance of the war, his lordship contended, that their declarations had gone further than it might be the intention of our allies to proceed. Spain could fcarcely be confidered as having thrown off all poffibility of treating with the prefent ministers of France, ince a minilter from that court had been accredit ed in Paris, after the events which led to and were part of the prefent differences. Holland defired only fecurity in future, and indemnity for the paft expences of the war. It was unneceffary to lay any thing of Pruffia, and, as to the fubfidifed princes, the circumftance of their receiv ing money to accompany us in the war, was a proof, that negociation between them and France had not been entirely impoffible, for it was to be fuppofed, that, if the fubfidy had not been granted, they could not have taken a share in hoftilities.

His lordship then noticed the circumftances of the last campaign, and delivered his opinion, that upon the whole it had been an unfuccessful one. No event had had taken place in it to make this a fplendid period in the British history. It had added the annual fum of 900,000l. to our taxes, and, while the commerce, which was to defray thefe, was diminish ing, the meature which had been adopted for reducing the national debt, and of courfe for leffening the prefent taxes, had been counteracted by the effect of one fruitless campaign.

With respect to the provocation thrown out in French fpeeches, there could be no end to the war if the two countries were to hold fuch circumftances to be grounds for its continuance. Might not the French find in the writings of a gentleman, the

friend of feveral noble lords, violences as numerous and confpicuous against them, as Barrere or Briflot had written againit this country?

The earl of Carlisle oppofed the mo

tion.

Lord Grenville took a review of the arguments in fupport of the motion. The endeavours of the prefent rulers in France to interfere with the internal affairs of this country had been doubted by fome noble lords; but he would repeat what was notorious, that, during every moment of M. Chauvelin's ftay here, no art, no labour had been spared to produce the difcontent, which would have been favourable to the views of the French government; endeavours, which were used not by him only, but by numberless other agents. It was the nature of that government, indeed, if government it could be called, to demand revolutions in others, and this had been avowed to be one of its principles by M. Brillot. To infure the permanency of the republic, he had faid, it was neceffary to light up the four corners of the world; the fecurity of the republic had demanded war, and they had therefore declared it. The fpeeches made in the French convention and in the jacobin club, had been faid to have been too often mentioned in that houfe; but it was not only in loofe fpeeches, that the malignity of the French against this country was to be traced; it existed in their writings, and not only there, qut in the formal reports, made by the committee of public fafety, which exercised whatever there was of government in France. And was it not certain, that the difcontented perfons in this country were continually diffeminating French principles? Did they not even moftis to imitate the French in their manners, their appellauons, their drefs, and their mot trifling articles of decoration?

His lordship have urged thefe confiderations for fome time, adverted to the mention made by a former noble speaker, of our allies, and oblerved, that, though it would not become him to fpeak in detail upon fuch a fubject, he could affirm, that only one fpirit animated them all, that of fuppreffing the anarchy which endangered every branch of civilized fociety. He was extremely forry to hear a report thrown out, or alluded to, that the war of the Indians against the Americans had been excited by this country. Such reports, not thrown out in a trivial place, or by trivial perfons, but in that house by a nobleman 8

of great confideration, became of serious import, and were likely to do much mifchif. He could, however, affirm, that not only had the war of the Indians been carried on without the affiftance of this country, but our offices had been tendered for putting an end to it, and even when not accepted, had been employed. The conduct of our public officers in Upper and Lower Canada had been uniformly circumfpect and judicious. The whole report was entirely without foundation. A charge of inconfiftency had been brought againft a right honourable perfon, who held the chief office in adminifiration, because in 1792 he had held out a profpect of peace, which in 1793 had not been realized; but did not the difference between the two periods fufficiently account for the difference in his conduct? In 1792, the late unfortunate Louis XVI, had begun to exercise the small power allotted to him by the new conflitution, and his firft efforts were for tranquillizing his own kingdom, and for preferving peace without.-Had the endeavours of that monarch been fuffered to proceed, peace might have been preserved. But the republican party perceiving, that, if he was fuffered to accomplish bleffings for his people, he would become popular, and overthrow their defigns, declared the war, and thus produced the difference between the views of the minifter in 1792, and his conduct in 1793.

The noble lord here argued at confiderable length upon the internal fituation of France, which, he contended, was inconfiftent with any vigorous or permanent maintenance of the war. By the opera tions of the forced loan, the income of no man in France was permitted to exceed two hundred pounds; every merchant was obliged to fell his commodities at a price two-thirds lefs than that which they bore before the fixing of the maximum; the farmers were unable to till their lands, their fervants being forced into the armies; and the generals were en railed from the ranks, without merit, to be the victims either of the jealoufy which their fuccefs, or of the difcontent which their misfortunes would excite. They were railed from the halbert to the truncheon, and palled from the truncheon to the guillotine. If the French mode of diftributing private property could for a moment be coolly confidered, or be fuppofed poffible here, what would become of the great landed eftate of the noble marquis, or of the crown grants of the noble duke? If pro

perty

perty was once to be invaded, it was, perhaps, not difficult to know which would go first. When he heard that a motion for peace was to be made and feconded by fuch men as the noble marquis and the noble duke, who had filled the first fituations in the country, who were, of course, confpicuous to the public attention, he had expected to find it fupported by the arguments of ftatefinen; but he had heard none fuch. The terms of the motion itself were also fo indefinite, that they could afford no instruction; for the conditions of peace, which were liberal at one time, might be injudicious at ano ther, according to the circumftances of the period.

His lordship inquired, with whom were we to treat in France? The convention, who might be expected to mention themfelves, had faid, that they had a hundred thoufand negociators on each frontier. Or, if it was fettled with whom we fhould treat, who would accept the office of negociator? His lordship here noticed the opinion of another noble speaker, that the campaign had not been a fuccessful one; and obferved, that the brave and fucceffful efforts of an illuftrious prince for the protection of Holland, would mark the laft year as a brilliant period for this

country.

As to the barriers of France, which had been called impenetrable, his lordship obferved, that the duke of Marlborough bad broken thefe barriers, and his career was interrupted, not by the enemy, but by their intrigues in foreign courts, and by a difunion among the allies, fimilar to that which would be effected if the prefent motion were carried. He concluded a fpeech of nearly three hours, by fome obfervations upon the ftate of this country, the trade of which had been very flightly affected by the war.

His lordhip here contended, that the law, which forbade, under pain of death, any Frenchman to propofe peace, while an enemy fhould remain in the eighty-fix departments, of courfe demanded that Savoy and the Netherlands fhould be ceded to France, fince thofe countries were decreed to be among the eighty-fix depart. ments at the paffing of the decree.

The marquis of Lanfdown faid, that his reply might be the fhorter, becaufe nearly all the arguments used against his motion, especially thofe of the noble lord who spoke laft, were fo fimilar to thofe offered during the American war, which had been finally refuted by events, that

mutatis mutandis, it might almost be ima gined the fame perfons had delivered them. The fame fort of reprefentations were fre quent then, the fame affertions of the weakness of our antagonist, the fame doubts as to whom we could treat with, and the fame difficulties arifing from the declarations of the Americans. But parliament, by two fhort lines, had removed all thefe difficulties; when they declared, that they did not fee a neceffity for a further offenfive war with America, they virtually annulled all these harsh declarations of the Americans, and, the two countries being inclined to make peace, peace was accordingly very foon had.

Minifters fpoke of the flourishing condition of this country and of its resources for war; but did they know the fentiments of the merchants and manufacturers? He had a letter in his pocket from Birmingham, which mentioned, that 4000 perfons had been added to the poor lifts there during the war; and even the rapidity with which our armies had been raised and fleets manned spoke the decay of our trade; for, whence came our foldiers but from our manufactories, or our feamen but from merchant ships?

-The true mode of giving additional fecurity to the conftitution of the country was by preferving, or increasing the bleffings of the people. Burdens, however dexterously they might be packed, did not lofe their weight, and there was a point beyond which the packhorfe could not be loaded. That the French had confented to apply all private property to public ufe, which the noble lord had mentioned, was a disadvantage to this country, fince it proved how devoted they were to the conteft. Property in this country was hap pily fecure, and he hoped it would always be fo much fo, that neither the noble lord, nor any of his affeciates, thould be able to touch it. The rendering perfons of all perfuafions contented with their treatment was another mode of defending the conftitution; and, fince the catholics had happily been emancipated, why were the poor diffenters, in thefe times of rumoured danger, fuffered to remain in discontent? Why not extend the trial by jury to Scot

land?

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